THE VIEW OF THE SYSTEMICIST: A CONVERSATION

In this reflective dialogue, Humberto Maturana speaks about his understanding of living systems and its implications for psychotherapy. Dismissing the myth of "instructive interaction," Maturana argues that a simple causal conceptualization of therapeutic procedures producing precise and predictable effects in clients is incoherent with a theory of structure-determined systems. Instead, he contends that every therapeutic action is embedded in a network of relationships, whose dynamics must be appreciated by therapists in order for them to participate in the client's system and at the same time maintain the distance necessary to relate reflectively and in a noncontrolling fashion. Maturana contends that the profound and un­biased understanding that can follow from this stance fosters an awareness of the observer-dependent nature of "pathology," and provides grounds for a critique of larger cultural systems in shaping the distress or liberation of their members.